Ogier and Treesingers

[Ganelon]

I don't want anyone to read too much into this thread appearing. Even with lots of backing material edited, coded or otherwise set-up, imping a race takes a looooong time.

What I do want to do is get some thoughts by players and immortals on the two subjects above in order for me to determine some work that requires doing.

This thread has no general direction to it - it's just a free-for-all of ideas (some which will possibly never see the light of day).

The main topic bandied about in room 1 of late is the Treesinging talent.

What I'm looking for from everyone atm is a list of sungwood items that Treesingers will be able to create.

Due to possible abuse issues we've identities with this talent, I'm also looking for a potential malus to keep incidences of sungwood items on the MUD rare.

[Velix]

I really like this, so much potential. I will make note of some of my ideas for the tree singing talent(this would be rollable like the rest of the talents?). Of course sung wood staves come to mind, but how about other things like sung wood armor? I can't see an ogier making things like swords and knives unless it is truly needed. Additionally, it would be cool if they could make things like flowers, trees, and plants grow. Maybe even plants that could be eaten.

As to Ogier themselves, they were often compared to trollocs in size... So they would have to be big and strong. But I remember they preferred to run, so more moves as well?

An idea for cps: they could be recruited by cities to help with building/reconstruction because their construction abilities were unsurpassed besides maybe working with the One Power.

[Tiglath]

Okay, I agree with Velix that this has loads of potential. My thoughts on Sungwood items also went first to staves and possible armor (perhaps greaves or bracers or even a helm?) Something to think on.

Grabbing hold of something else Velix said, the ability to Sing also aided all plants in growing and there are evidences and hints to that throughout the books. In AMoL , while fighting Trollocs in Caemlyn, Loial starts singing not a Tree Song but a Song of Growing and the dead grass around him turned green and shoots, vines, and flowers that were not there before, sprung up out of the ground.
I think it would be cool if Ogier with the Singing Talent, in an outdoors/wilderness room, could sing up a fruit or veggie to eat.

Also, I think that anyone playing an Ogier with the ability to produce Sung Wood objects should also RP the near reverent reluctance to do so. While it doesn't harm the tree to have a piece of Sungwood....uh....sung out of it, the Ogier said it was still asking a lot of the tree and they needed to have good reason to do so.

Perhaps the talent can grow by degrees and the Singer must train/RP with a teacher to progress? They can start out by making plants around them grow more green more vibrant. Then level it up to making new plants grown (produce simple fruit or veggie, thing garden plants) and eventually to where they can produce Sungwood items. (With as many levels or steps along that process as is seen fit).

Another thing to consider, which goes along with the different levels of Singing above. The Talent for signing among the Ogier also varied with some having only a bit of the talent and then others, like Loail, being very gifted in it. Could have strengths in Singing too just like in the One Power for Channelers. *shrug* Just a thought.

Another practical thought I just had was what trees would be used? There are several 'forested' areas in the MUD where the rooms are marked as such and the descriptions also mention trees but there are no actual 'trees' (objs) in the room. Are we thinking that we would need to put special trees throughout the MUD that Talented Ogier can try their gift on? Or just make Singing Sungwood possible in any forest/field/hill/mountain room? Again something to consider.

[Ganelon]

I really like this, so much potential. I will make note of some of my ideas for the tree singing talent(this would be rollable like the rest of the talents?). Of course sung wood staves come to mind, but how about other things like sung wood armor? I can't see an ogier making things like swords and knives unless it is truly needed. Additionally, it would be cool if they could make things like flowers, trees, and plants grow. Maybe even plants that could be eaten.

* Yes, Treesinging would be a rollable talent. I believe (TM) it is already set up this way just waiting for Ogier to be imped.

* Sungwood staves is a definite. Currently existing in the game sungwood items are:

1) 2663 [ -1] { A} [56] a sungwood spear
2) 3569 [ -1] { P } [ 0] a sungwood earring
3) 4591 [ -1] { P } [ 0] a long length of sungwood
4) 8919 [ -1] { A} [35] a sungwood staff
5) 10714 [ -1] { } [ 0] a tall lamp with a sungwood base
6) 12323 [ -1] { P } [ 0] a rectangular tray of sungwood
7) 13401 [ -1] { P } [ 0] a Sungwood fountain in the shape of an Ogier with
8) 19064 [ -1] { P } [ 0] sungwood carved into a curling vine with leaves th
9) 30917 [ -1] { P } [ 0] a sungwood pendant
10) 30925 [ -1] { P } [ 0] a sungwood ring
11) 40608 [ -1] { A} [55] a craftily carved pike of sungwood

* Sungwood armor? No. Too much against Ogier outlook. I can see some young Ogier like Loil busy at this. Elder Haman (or his mother, or Erith, or some other Ogier comes along), raises their tufted ears and goes: "Oh my Loil, that is a terrible idea, it's just encouraging impetuous and hasty behavior out of humans!"

* The growing of plants. Yeah, I've considered this off and on over the years, mostly as a means of gaining CP's within the Stedding (simply because by reducing it to the Stedding it's easier to imp and control by Immortals - it also gives some reasoning for the descriptions of Ogier Stedding being so different. Perhaps it could even offer some explanation of why channelers are removed from the Source on entering a stedding- resonance from the large amounts of sung-to trees/plants lock out the One Power. It would also go a long way to explaining the reason why Shadowspawn do not enter - created by the Power originally before they began to breed truly, that same resonance could be disruptive to their biological functions.

[Ganelon]

As to Ogier themselves, they were often compared to trollocs in size... So they would have to be big and strong. But I remember they preferred to run, so more moves as well?

An idea for cps: they could be recruited by cities to help with building/reconstruction because their construction abilities were unsurpassed besides maybe working with the One Power.

Ogier will be the game mirror of trollocs for the most part. They were often mistaken for trollocs, and strength/constitution and objects able to be used will reflect that. Preferring to run was just a side-effect of their great size. I'm sure we all remember that poor horse that had to cart Loil and his books around.

Trollocs eat horses, Ogier give them back problems.

As to the last.....I'm going to leave that hanging in the air for a bit at this point. Not even close to considering those kinds of things yet.

[Ganelon]

In response to Tiglath - who wrote quite a bit.....

Ogier in some way were connected to the Green Man - who iirc alluded to the fact that there used to be multiple Green Men. So Ogier are probably a sub-species, or at least vaguely related. Hence why Loil could do what he could do.

Also, keep in mind Loil wasn't typical for his kind. He was one of the most talented Ogier born with the gift in a long time.

That being said......I don't see any harm in growing a fruit here and there.

I would like treesinging to be something that gains by degress in what you can do. But after discussing it with Niila, this might not be possible. Rather than it being a talent like channeling where you must learn and practice what you do, it's more likely to be like seers and wolf brothers where you just have certain abilities that require no real effort.

As to the question in regards to how does it work in relation to requiring a basic object with a particular flag or something to denote it's "singable".....that's something I havent decided on as of yet. It may be that, it may be tied to just being in a forest sector.....no idea at this point.

I would like to be able to be more specific, but this is just the bouncing around ideas stage.

[Velix]

Was reading while on the plane and convientely, it was a chapter when they go into a stedding and Loial was telling Mat about the Longing. Would be cool if they have to return to a steering every few days.

[asher]

shields
whips (vines)
figurines - keepsakes, sell for money?
chests/boxes
masks
Staves
Spears
clubs
closet/cabinet/dresser
chairs
beds
bookshelf
other furniture objects
boomerang (sounds fun?)
children's toys? Potentially used to a quest. Similar to a figureine
practice sword/lathe
flowers
fruit

vines/plants in room that tangle and slow things trying to move through? Similar to barricade weave, or make moves cost more?

more to come if I think of more.

[Ganelon]

Was reading while on the plane and convientely, it was a chapter when they go into a stedding and Loial was telling Mat about the Longing. Would be cool if they have to return to a steering every few days.

That is brilliant. Applied to all Ogier, not just Treesingers, but maybe we can make singing make the longing worse. Absolutely zero idea on how to apply this, but better than anything I've come up with.

[Velix]

Could it be like a third option: hunger, thirst, Longing. Gives a penalty to regeneration and if long enough: hp loss. In the books they talked about how it can kill them.