Lowbies in PK

[Szean]

What exactly are the rules as related to lowbies in pk? I understand that the current orders from on high are not to touch them (and I respect that, no sport in killing those too weak to fight back). However, what obligation falls on the lowbies to respect the opposing side? I believe we need some clarification on that issue. For example, three trollocs (of which I was one) were raiding this evening. A wetlander lowbie (level 8) was hanging around us, and on walking into her room once we caught her scanning the area - scouting us and feeding our location to an Aes Sedai on at the time.

In my opinion, there are two ways this type of situation can be handled. They are:

(1) Provide equal responsibility to lowbies as highbies. By that I mean make it clear to lowbies that they are protected, and are not to abuse the opportunity that protection gives them. This would involve immortal oversight and reaction when a lowbie acts inappropriately (gossiping or telling locations, closing or calling gates, etc) to the same degree a highbie would receive for indiscriminately killing innocent lowbies.

(2) Make it policy that lowbies are protected...but only until they act otherwise. This would allow for those who act in pk (like the lowbie above) to be placed on a list and treated as an active target in all future battles. However, this will require allowing the highbies some leeway in determining when a lowbie is scouting (and may result in the occasional accident from misunderstanding a lowbie's actions), and would most likely be best accompanied by advice for all lowbies to flee the area immediately on sight of an enemy.

Speaking for myself, my preference would be for the second. But whatever happens, I think we need a clear policy post - most of the time we were hesitant to act, not sure what would get us in trouble with the guys upstairs.

Szean

[Ganelon]

As posted in the Practice Yard section of the forums and has been the policy since DS was opened:
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NOTE:

Trollocs are bound by certain rules in PK.
One of these is not to attack low level characters.

**Unless they interfere in PK**

If you're tracking/scouting/taking hits at raiding trollocs/etc - you've interfered.

You are giving information that helps the opposing side/is hindering the opposition under a cover of safety due to your level as the DS will not attack you.

At this point you can be killed with impunity.

This isnt up for debate.

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This has been posted several times over several boards.

I'm going to give zero leeway on this. If I (or another immortal) see it being done, you get one polite warning. If you then persist in doing it, trollocs/fades can do what they like with you.

This is the official standpoint. For all those tempted to gnash their teeth and moan about it, consider the alternative: DS raiders killing all humans they encounter just to protect their location.

A lot of protection is given here to those who dont want to PK - or cant due to level - if you use that to assist anyone in getting a kill, it's just going to mess it up for everyone. If you want to get involved, then switch to a character that can do so without skirting around the lowbie rule.

I will get nasty with trollocs killing lowbies for no reason and you can sure bet I'll do the same with human lowbies scouting and other direct interference.

NOTE: All the responsibility for enforcing this doesnt just fall on immortals. If you're on a wetlander and you see someone acting contrary to the rules: tell them that they're doing so. Not everyone will have access to these forums straight away, some might not even ever bother the whole time they're playing here. It is quite possible they're entirely unaware they're acting in a manner they shouldnt.

[Velis]

The lowbie in question (read me) knew the rules.
They have been the same rules ever since DS was enabled as a playable race.

Before all this, while i was afk (read serving customers ) the three mentioned trollocs stood in my room and attempted to get a response out of me.
So yer, i told Arleve where you were when she logged on, hardly my fault if you walk past me.

As for the scanning/tracking/whatever.... yes i followed the trollocs down south toward caem. Yes i was scanning for them, they ARE trollocs after all. But after the intial meeting i only saw them twice, once near ways, once near caem north gate where i was told abruptly to leave or die

Point of all this is, if a newbie sees you and doesnt run like the wind as an IC character would, they should be fair game. They should get one warning to leave the area/zone, then its game on. Also anything seen as threatening or helpful to highbies hunting should be a killable offense.

However, scanning can hardly be seen as helpful, when a trolloc is one room away from you, its kinda already too late if you are helping the highbie (cause they could and should kill you for following/tracking).

I understand how it could be a problem, but if scanning is a killable offense then what happens when someone walks in on a lowbie scanning for mobs. Hell i scan out of habit even when im the only one online.

Also there is a way to tell if trollocs/humans/any player are in your zone, which makes scanning almost useless. I wont write it here due to the hope that it will either be removed or altered to stop it working. Only Sedai and Warders should be able to sense darkies in the zone.

In the end, theres so much ongoing work to be done and certain things can wait, this is all something that will have to be revisited once the numerous changes to equipment and combat have been completed.

I personally wouldnt have minded dieing because i was trying to help Arleve (albeit without track or trace). Plus, any PK is good PK

[Darak]

Scanning itself is not suspect. Standing OUTSIDE the northgate, where the patty has already been killed and scanning is highly suspect. ESPECIALLY when we already knew Arleve was 1s of you having scanned her there. But now that I am aware of your opinions on lowbie participation in pk, I'll put your lowbie's name on the Kill On Sight list of lowbies who like to interfere in pk.

[Velis]

I had no plans on making a habit of it with said character, but sure, why not.

Or you could just come down on your own one day instead of trying to 3 on 1 against Arleve and see how i taste.

[Darak]

Yep, that's what we were looking for alright. Even though Arleve wasn't even on when we first headed through the ways, even though we headed Caemlyn when we thought she was TV and headed TV when we knew she was Caemlyn. And even though she snuck in and blinded us while we were minding our own, killing a patrol. Yep, we sure were looking hard for a 3v1 fight. Against a helpless channie who can only windstorm too. Shame on us!

[Shawnyve]

Rather then deleting these last few post I'm going to use them as an example of the type of discussion we do not want threads disintegrating into. Its fine to discuss things, not so much to start pointing fingers etc.

Let us in the future moderate how we respond to things and keep the discussion on track. Take another look at this thread please. http://mirrorsmud.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4

I shall leave this thread unlocked in hope that someone might have some helpful points and I don't like to treat people like naughty children.

[Zorgsplat]

Well, I for one enjoyed the pk, even though we weren't expecting it. I disagree with you velis that we were looking for her, but like i said, I love pk and was happy that everyone left alive cause it sucks when people die. The other thing i disagree with is thoughts of newbies who are standing around staring at trollocs to be killed. If i'm a newbie and i'm confused why someone has * around their name, i'm not going to run. We initially thought you were a newbie and not someone who has played the game before. we ruffled your hair, got your attention, but did not expect you to run from us.

I guess all i really have to say is it was a great time, and get your character some levels so instead of scouting, i can eat you and turn in your scalp.

For the Horde!

Zorgsplat the Mighty...

[Arleve]

I for one thought it was a blast. I had to be careful with 3 v 1 - because as you saw, you were eating me when you finally could see again. ;)

Windstorm was the only reason I got out of that little situation.

I look at each of these as a learning experience. It sucks to die but none of us are stealing each others' equipment so it wouldn't have hurt too bad except perhaps a blow to the ego. Next time there will be no blinding - only weaving attacks. After the blinds, I was left without the ability to do much damage if I wanted to save enough to weave Windstorm, which I certainly did with 3 Trollocs. So it was just us hand to hand.

As for the lvl 8, I got a bit of info from her initially but much of that was me scouting you out after. I circled you near the waygate a few times using Trace and track & debating on what to do. I then decided on a course but thought I'd check the gate guards and luckily I did cuz woops, Caemlyn was closed. I found other means in but realized darkness fighting against 3 wasn't something I wanted so I waited til you went north a bit.

I dunno - could have gone differently all around I suppose but it was fun nonetheless. If you had killed the lvl 8 after she was scanning, etc, I don't see that much would have changed because I already got the info roughly where you were when I logged on which left me enough info to do the rest on my own.

[Szean]

I'd say from my perspective anyway, it's a matter of simple courtesy. We are being courteous to the lowbies by not killing them out of hand (also because its a rule, but still ). All I'd ask is that lowbies show the same courtesy back to us and act as if they cannot see us at all.

Szean