Absorption Equipment "Overhaul"

[Master Sylibus]

I have quite a few concerns when it comes to abs equipment as a whole. It came to my attention that an immortal is about to overhaul every type of abs eq based on Belgar’s standards that he wrote ages ago apparently. There’s something about ratios and whatnot and blah blah blah. I’m sure it’s all fine and dandy until I find something out.

My “top tier” clan equipment weighs around 68 lbs total. I talked with Eris, the person in charge of this overhaul apparently, and at first they said that the weight wasn’t going to be changed. I wanted to make sure of this so I asked them what the overall weight would be adjusted to around. Got told 80 lbs. That about made no sense when I was initially told that firstly my abs weren’t going to be upped in weight. I attempted to see who assigned her this duty of “overhauling” equipment and availed to no names.

This all came about because I didn’t want Queen’s Guard of Andor equipment sets to get fiddled with just yet if anything. There was a decision to split the clan into Andoran Lion Guard and the “elite” Queen’s Guard of Andor. Hence some people wanted to pretty much retool all of the equipment that this new rank 6-11 clan is going to have. I opted to just keep it how it is because honestly we don’t need to go splitting the clan and making a mess of things just yet. And it’s just ironic that this “elite” clan is told their abs is going to increase in weight and their insignias taken away from them. I know that the %’s of absorption isn’t going to change but the “ratio” or whatever of weight compared to the % of absorption is going to be fiddled with. Essentially this is downing this “elite” clan.

Anywho. I wanted this to be put to the attention of others including those higher up. I don’t know if this is something overly important that resources need to be put into. Especially when there are a whole lot of other important things to look into. Personally I just think it’s silly and should be addressed at least better. Especially in a bit of detail to everyone else. This not only affects me but it'll affect any equipment that can absorb damage.

I’m sure I have more thoughts I failed to mention. If I find I should elaborate more or add to what I initially wrote I’ll tact it along later.

[Eris]

First of all, it's not just your clan's equipment, but rather, all equipment, all clans, all unclanned. And dodge also.

The idea being that if we create a mud wide standard, dodge/combo/abs balance can then be adjusted, as the combat system undergoes changes in the future. Previously, the stats for equipment across the board (every type) varied vastly and wildly and any sort of balance was impossible to adjust. While we did perform testing when determining the stats that we would use, particularly with interest towards defense, it will be impossible to get the full scope of the balance situation until...

A: a few combat coding things are fixed and or finished.
B: pk has ensued under the new conditions.

Once all of this is implemented, balance of the different possible set ups can actually be addressed, since we'll know which pieces need to be changed and how at a glance, in order to tweak any set up. This is something we'd never have achieved without these changes.

Please believe me when I say that elite clans will indeed have the best of everything. Don't think it is the -only- way to get good things though. An Elite clan is an honor, a special duty given to those who are worthy and capable of seeing to it. An Elite clan is not a ticket to bonuses or equipment otherwise unattainable.

I firmly and viciously believe that the balance of different set ups is essential and vital to any plausible, healthy pk environment and I vow to you that I will be watching said balance very carefully. I will also need feedback from players, once this is properly implemented, and I will be very grateful for your logs and observations.

[Master Sylibus]

"...as the combat system undergoes changes in the future."

"...healthy pk environment..."

So equipment is going to get tweaked to all hell before combat changes are implemented? How long will this take? Combat has been jacked for quite some time.

[Master Sylibus]

I really don't like how this is all pretty much revolving around PK. I wouldn't go blaming the people who made equipment back in the day for fugging everything up. This was solely an RP mud but now all these PK elements are trying to be pushed into it. So there's a reason why there are a ton of equipment with weird numbers and sometimes weird names.

There really isn't much need for PK and some focus should go elsewhere. Like cutting out a lot of script and pieces of equipment. Or perhaps removing something for now and putting it back later.

I think we should focus more on the pve aspect. Fighting mobs, smobs, raids, etc.

[Conor]

They are not mutually exclusive, Syl. It makes perfect sense for everything to be standardized before other things are tweaked. What's the point of trying to balance the game when there is no baseline to balance against? Plus I would guess this is the easiest place to start, versus coding which I imagine is highly restricted by certain immortals' time. Why should everyone else sit on their hands and wait for the one before looking at the other?

Standardized equipment is an absolute necessity for any kind of balance. That doesn't just mean pk balance, although it is important there. But rather, the clans themselves need to be balanced against each other. That way you don't have one clan running around with ungodly ridiculous equipment while another is lugging around stuff worse than generic plate, or smob loading stuff better than clan equipment. And with the massive amounts of every kind of item on this game, it's particularly vital that things be standardized.

Lastly, I don't see anyone throwing blame around; don't really know why that made it into your last post. You can fix something that someone else did without it being an insult to or casting aspersions on that person. It just needs to be done.

[Master Sylibus]

Was speaking mostly towards Eris. The convo we had just didn't sound like this was going to go smoothly. I understand the standardizing. As it is we probably need a complete equipment wipe and start from square one. I'm just worried about what exactly is going to happen. If equipment gets tweaked before code changes, how will the tweaks affect what we already have? I would just like someone like Maxim to say that these sort of things are just around the corner. As it is there is just so much someone can do by themselves on this game.

[Maxim]

Okay. These things are around the corner.

[Ganelon]

None of this is the official take on anything - just the way I see things - and it should be read with that in mind.

I think Conor largely hit everything on the mark correctly in the first few paragraphs of his post. I'll try not to rehash any of that, but I do want to comment on a few points raised by Sylibus. Not to pick apart what he's written, but to throw some light on some of his concerns.

"This was solely an RP mud"
Mirrors in the early years of it's existence was solely an RP MUD (outside of arena bouts). But I think lack of alternative at the time played as much of a part in this as anything else. There was no Dark Side, fewer zones, zones not built with PK in mind, etc.

I know the owners wanted things far more RP orientated than other MUD's - but at the same time if you look at early posts by the immortals of the time (Ganelon found a really ancient board!), a lot of thought towards future PK was already being discussed even way back then.

Since trolloc activity has sparked a lot of the PK debate, let's take that as an example of things and why they change. Dark Side was long in the planning - but it never eventuated when it should have as most imms that turned their hand to it went AWOL before anything much but the faintest sketch of zones were completed. This wasnt something conceived and birthed just recently. It was just delayed greatly in it's arrival.

What couldnt be forseen in earlier days was how much Trollocs would change the way mobs and city security would have to be approached. This means a lot of old ideas had to be rethought. That isnt to say former immortals did a bad job - it just couldnt be predicted what impact Dark Side would have when it came about.

When fades arrive on the scene, no doubt the same will happen. MUD's change and evolve in response to new additions. It doesnt mean anything that was standard previously was bad - just that it doesnt gel with what's come in since. This goes for triggers, equipment, mob construction, loads - pretty much everything.

So I dont think this is so much a sudden about face in direction as much as a delayed stab into things long left undone.

"There really isnt much need for PK"
Well that's something players decide as much as immortals and it's already been shown to have a lot of backing. Not everyone agrees with the idea - or even how it should be handled, but that's to be expected. Not everyone looks for the same things in a MUD.

"Some focus should go elsewhere. Like cutting out a lot of script and pieces of equipment."
That is taking place. Major changes in scripts/triggers are always announced, but a lot of minor ones get no mention as they have no visible effect that players can see. They're more along the lines of cleaning up how things are executed. None of that is being ignored at all.

"As it is there is just so much someone can do by themselves on this game."
For a long time there wasnt the staff to address a lot of issues. That's now no longer the case, so things left unseen to are now getting fixed and/or included into the game at a fairly rapid pace. You dont need to look much further than the MOTD entries for the last few months to see that. It's attaining a huge length. We've had anything up to eight immortals on at a time and both coders back (who have been doing a mountain of work).

This isnt intended to dismiss your concerns or say you dont have valid points - you do - but most of it is already being undertaken or slated for looking at soon. If you feel something needs deeper attention then let us know. It will be looked into.

A last point:

People get attached to the games they've chosen to play. When changes occur in that game, it wont always be to their liking. They're free to state that opinion. Communication is the key reason for existence of forums after all. I only ask that they keep their posts constructive and civil and that those responding to them do the same (not pointing at anyone in this thread, just want it kept in mind in future ones).

[Master Sylibus]

Good enough for me. Thankies, Ganelon.

[Eris]

And btw, it's a 70 lb standard, not 80... 80 is for trollocs... sorry, have not slept enough lately. Good thing I actually refer to the proper charts when I build