Sheathing the Sword

[Mordero]

So I had the privilege of trying this form out today, and I like it. However, the reason why no one will ever use it is because you permanently lose 1 HP when you die from it.

So, my question is, is there any way to get that removed? Otherwise, it would be used, and certainly won't get abused (because you still die in the end). Only losing a permanent HP, makes this form not worth it ever.

[Ganelon]

I can fix this so it's never an issue again:

Set Mordero maxhit 1

Problem solved after first use of form!

[Sargon]

When I was taught this form I was told that the permanent loss of hp was not always 1 hp but could be a bit more and was randomized. I don't recall and perhaps never knew the perimeters on how high of a loss you might get for using Sheathing the Sword, it wasn't a lot, but could be as high as a 5 hp loss too, me thinks.

[asher]

Maybe if the powers that be are willing, it could be changed to something else? I could see level loss and being forced to relevel it back as adequate.

[Sargon]

Perhaps. Though if you go back to book two where Lan teaches / explains this move to Rand (it isn't so much a form exactly), he was very clear that it is a last ditch, pretty much prepare to die for your cause, sort of move.

*SPOILERS for Book Two*

“Suddenly Lan was at Rand’s stirrup, in his gray-green scaled armor that would make him all but disappear in forest or darkness. “I need to talk to you, sheepherder.” He looked at Loial. “Alone, if you please, Builder.” Loial nodded and moved his big horse away.

“I don’t know if I should listen to you,” Rand told the Warder. “These fancy clothes, and all those things you told me, they didn’t help much.”

“When you can’t win a big victory, sheepherder, learn to settle for the small ones. If you made them think of you as something more than a farmboy who’ll be easy to handle, then you won a small victory. Now be quiet and listen. I’ve only time for one last lesson, the hardest. Sheathing the Sword.”

“You’ve spent an hour every morning making me do nothing but draw this bloody sword and put it back in the scabbard. Standing, sitting, lying down. I think I can manage to get it back in the sheath without cutting myself.”

“I said listen, sheepherder,” the Warder growled. “There will come a time when you must achieve a goal at all costs. It may come in attack or in defense. And the only way will be to allow the sword to be sheathed in your own body.”

“That’s crazy,” Rand said. “Why would I ever—?”
The Warder cut him off. “You will know when it comes, sheepherder, when the price is worth the gain, and there is no other choice left to you. That is called Sheathing the Sword. Remember it.”

Then later on, Rand is contemplating his own death and Sheathing the Sword comes up in his thoughts:

“Ta’veren,” Loial began.

“I do not want to hear about that, either.” Rand started off again as fast as before. “All I want is to give the dagger to Mat, and the Horn to Ingtar.” Then what? Go mad? Die? If I die before I go mad, at least I won’t hurt anybody else. But I don’t want to die, either. Lan can talk about Sheathing the Sword, but I’m a shepherd, not a Warder. “If I can just not touch it,” he muttered, “maybe I can. . . . Owyn almost made it.”

I gather from all of this that the intended purpose of Sheathing the Sword is to sacrifice one's self in order to take down your foe too, and possibly rescue / save others. This is also evident from the passages where Rand actually performs Sheathing the Sword:

“For the first time Rand realized that Ba’alzamon acted as if the heron-mark blade could harm him. Steel can’t hurt the Dark One. But Ba’alzamon watched the sword warily. Rand was one with the sword. He could feel every particle of it, tiny bits a thousand times too small to be seen with the eye. And he could feel the Power that suffused him running into the sword, as well, threading through the intricate matrices wrought by Aes Sedai during the War of Power.

It was another voice he heard then. Lan’s voice. There will come a time when you want something more than you want life. Ingtar’s voice. It is every man’s right to choose when to Sheathe the Sword. The picture formed of Egwene, collared, living her life as a damane. Threads of my life in danger. Egwene. If Hawkwing gets into Falme, he can save her. “Before he knew it, he had taken the first position of Heron Wading in the Rushes, balanced on one foot, sword raised high, open and defenseless. Death is lighter than a feather, duty heavier than a mountain.

Ba’alzamon stared at him. “Why are you grinning like an idiot, fool? Do you not know I can destroy you utterly?”
Rand felt a calmness beyond that of the void. “I will never serve you, Father of Lies. In a thousand lives, I never have. I know that. I’m sure of it. Come. It is time to die.”
Ba’alzamon’s eyes widened; for an instant they were furnaces that put sweat on Rand’s face. The blackness behind Ba’alzamon boiled up around him, and his face hardened. “Then die, worm!” He struck with the staff, as with a spear.

Rand screamed as he felt it pierce his side, burning like a white-hot poker. The void trembled, but he held on with the last of his strength, and drove the heron-mark blade into Ba’alzamon’s heart. Ba’alzamon screamed, and the dark behind him screamed. The world exploded in fire.”

Anyway, I share all this to put Sheathing the Sword into its book context. Granted, Mirrors is a game, not the books, and Rand didn't have levels or hp to loose (so to speak). But Rand did risk his life, no Mistress of the Wheel to spin him right back out should he have died. The wound he did suffer from allowing Ba'alzamon to stab him plagued him from then on and nearly cost him is life on more than one subsequent occasion. That seems about like loosing 1-5 permanent hp to me

As I understand, using Sheathing the Sword in game pretty much makes you a super human for a short duration, almost guaranteeing you victory against any mob or smob (granted that you take them out in the time allotted). Anyway, that is just my two cents. I have never used the 'form' though I have heard about those who have and I thought I heard of one player who 'retired' his character through using it and RPed a permanent death in order to take out his enemy.

So whatever people have to say or whatever is decided on Sheathing the Sword, I just wanted to put it in context. Thank you, and pardon my ramblings.

[asher]

I'm aware. No one was arguing against dying at the end. That is an understood. But if you are in pk or pve, would you ever use it even as a last ditch knowing you would lost 1-5 hp permanently? Most people probably wouldn't. Which makes it never instead of last ditch.

[Ganelon]

I'm aware. No one was arguing against dying at the end. That is an understood. But if you are in pk or pve, would you ever use it even as a last ditch knowing you would lost 1-5 hp permanently? Most people probably wouldn't. Which makes it never instead of last ditch.

Let's inject some facts into some of the assumptions being made by all posters on this thread.

* I would actually for PK. In an eye-blink. I know others who would too.

* "Most" people never reach Sheathing to have to decide. "Most" people who reach Sheathing have better tactics to use in PVE. We're talking a very small percentage of the MUD's population over 15 years, and as Sargon pointed out, some of that percentage has done it, and done it willingly for various reasons.

* Losing 1-5hps permanently is far too light in my opinion for what you get. Hell, a fade loses 3 hit points permanently and 4 Intelligence every time he wields his sword. Regardless of his level, his skills, and circle. He doesn't even have to hit anyone.

* Sheathing is not just something to whack in some bonuses for PC's on their latest CP run - it's an RP statement made by forming characters (not everything in the MUD is meant to be used by everyone), a flag used to beef up mobs and more.

* Using Sheathing is deliberately meant to be a choice with consequences - you chose to use it, or you don't. It isn't meant to be an easy button on an MMO you just randomly mash at the drop of the hat because you hit a high enough circle. Using it is the agreement you make for the consequences gained - both good and bad. This is to deliberately simulate the novels - not the power increase - the cost of choosing to use it.

* etc. Typed enough. Haven't even had coffee yet.

TL;DR Version:

I can tell you with 99.9% accuracy the coder will probably not change this. And I will back his decision. There simply is no compelling reason to do so.

I'll argue with anything until I'm black in the face - all of you know that. There simply isn't something here to argue. Use the form if you wish, otherwise don't use it.

This isn't to disregard the opinions of the poster's in this thread. I know some 111 decisions and thought processes are frustrating - they are for 111's at times too. And we have to deal with a lot made before our time.

Ganelon Version for those who thought the TL;DR version was too long and didn't read:

No. Sargon layed it out all pretty well.

Room 1 Version:

Set Asher sex f
Set title Mordero: "pussiest fade of 2016!"
Kill Velix (just cause....)