Weaving and Moving

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Niila
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Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 7:20 pm

Weaving and Moving

Post by Niila »

Hi everyone!

Since this 'feature' that looked more like a bug from many perspectives probably involves quite many people on the MUD, I'd like to hear the general thoughts about the topic from everyone.

I wrote the fix to prevent it from being possible to do, but it's always possible that it might get reverted, depending on you, the players, and how you feel about it being gone now.

To those who don't know what the topic is about, it was possible to start up Area Weaves in another room, wait until they were almost done, and then in walk to another room to trigger the weaves. This effectively made killing smobs/guards/whatever else there was in a neat fashion, with little to no danger to the channeler doing it.

Feel free to post your thoughts, from any perspective you want to. Discuss.
Dezadryk
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:25 pm

Re: Weaving and Moving

Post by Dezadryk »

Yup, I completely agree that once you move from an area, all bashes, weaves, forms, etc, should be cancelled. And I currently heavily use the moving/channeling thing, so that's saying something.

Basically, by keeping it allowed, it makes channeling speeds nearly useless for AoE weaves.
asher
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:48 pm

Re: Weaving and Moving

Post by asher »

I can see both arguments, however I personally prefer it that channelers can move. Maybe it's bias because I have a few. Arguments could be made that channelers are too too strong/powerful anyways. I believe that the game design was that they were supposed to be strong/powerful.

FC also don't have access to armor/brace like most MC do. It could be said that they all "could" get it then go tower, but why should you have to min/max to play the game? In the areas where you would actually use it, you are likely to be perma-bashed and never get it off. This is partly because of the following point.

The wait time on most AoE is extremely long. They are usually not able to be reliably weaved past normal. This is based on an MC with maxed AoE and 70 seize, and an FC with 70 AoE and 99 embrace. I have yet to get 99 embrace and AoE to try it otherwise. Any attempt to do it on fast has always resulted in a decent number of misweaves that hurt the character more than would be prudent in a situation where you would actually want/need to use them.

Characters who go blademaster route end up with more outright survivability due to master armor, dodge, brace, parry and second stance defensive bonus which can take you past the 130 dodge/parry cap.

It can also be argued that channelers have the ability to break the mud. Its easy to point to Dezadryk, but how many players are actually that good? How many players could really raze TV and be successful?

Anyways maybe that was longer winded than I intended.
asher
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:48 pm

Re: Weaving and Moving

Post by asher »

Missed Dezadryks post as I was writing. It doesn't make it useless, as faster speeds use less energy, and allow you to weave more. You're fairly well capped at around normal speed for AoE to start with from everything I've seen.
Dezadryk
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:25 pm

Re: Weaving and Moving

Post by Dezadryk »

It's definitely more of a balance thing, than a realistic thing. Most full dodgers who go in there with a group of enemies and try to do an AoE weave, will probably take some serious damage for it, but the damage they do is also quite potent. Against mobols, it's also more of a gamble, since you can sit in a room and not get hit for a while if timed right.

I am curious if it's true that using faster speeds takes less energy, because in my experience, they seem pretty close. And in my experience, channeling fast with a high power spell (riven earth, earth spike, etc) is going to have misfires no matter what. This is normally not the case with lower powered weaves.
Dezadryk
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:25 pm

Re: Weaving and Moving

Post by Dezadryk »

Also, I would like to just say, I would reeally like to see more normal characters around. I know i'm not one to talk, I love to have "unique" special characters like WB and MCs, but it's making it so people ONLY play these characters.

changes like the one Niila just put in, where normal attacks are put on hold while forming, is a great step in the right direction. It makes players really think whether they want to form, or bash. Which is great.
Ganelon
Posts: 1572
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Weaving and Moving

Post by Ganelon »

What Dezadryk said in every post.
"How the fades must gnash their teeth......."

Demandred of the Forsaken.
asher
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:48 pm

Re: Weaving and Moving

Post by asher »

Players can flee the room. Why bother using it against them? Allowing movement lets you follow and try to get it anyways. As for mobiles, where it really counts, you just wont get the weaves off. Not every channeler has 99 brace. FC wont. Those MC who do, wont be using weaves in every scenario because they will be outed. The times they do are when they are alone and not in PK. The damage you do isn't really making up for it if you are always on the ground and cant get anything off. Basically you gave up all your attacks for nothing. Its basically reinforcing the need for MC to join certain specific military clans and go bladeforms for more defense.

As for speed, I said faster in the relative sense. Not fast in the "channel fast" absolute speed sense. Normal will use less energy for a weave than thorough will for the same weave. Speed still matters even if you can move.
Ganelon
Posts: 1572
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Weaving and Moving

Post by Ganelon »

Flees can fail, and flees can drop you into neg moves quick.

Remember kicks/forms drain moves from you when you use them and moves conservation now can mean the difference between life or death in PK (or even xp'ing).


The majority of MC's will be Dreadlords, or aiming to eventually be, getting outed probably will be a non-issue.
"How the fades must gnash their teeth......."

Demandred of the Forsaken.
Krinata Almandar
Posts: 56
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:35 pm

Re: Weaving and Moving

Post by Krinata Almandar »

I played around with how the changes affect me a bit tonight.
FC, my staff skill capped at 70 also dodge capped at 70.
embrace/meditate at 99. I've only been White Tower so do not have extra skills from other clans.

The area weave I have at 99 and can weave fast still works well. I tried it against both bashing and non-bashing mobs.

I also tested an area weave that I have at 70 it fails to often at fast, takes 15 seconds to weave at carefully. This used to be my weave in the room next to the mob, do the count then walk in and let it hit. With the hits I take waiting for this one (in rear position on full defense) or having it interrupted by a bash it's more likely to get me killed then kill the mobs so it's only useful if I'm partnered with a fighter who can keep the mobs off me while I wait for the weave to hit. I'll have to rethink how I kill various mobs but I can live with this change.
Krinata Almandar, Aes Sedai of the Brown Ajah
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