A question for everyone

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Dezadryk
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:25 pm

A question for everyone

Post by Dezadryk »

Alright, so I want to get everyone's opinion on this, both mortal and immortal.

I enjoy playing this game because I can attack anything in the game, because I can explore and find things that are a challenge to defeat. I can find hidden doors or find ways into locations that are inaccessible to normal players (IE. people without pick, ram of air, door rams etc.)

I like things like PK, I like the thrill of killing someone in the game and walking away from it and on the flip side of that: I like the risk of death from another player. I bring all this up because there's an ethical viewpoint that each player individually cultivates when they play this game. Some people like to RP, some people like to PK, some people just like to explore.

The fact is though, in this game, you are quite literally allowed to do basically whatever you want. So if you want to be some murdering psychopath, you can be just that, the in game mechanics will allow you to do that. If you want to be a skilled thief and steal things from people (both NPCs and players) you can. The problem that comes with this though, is that in this game, immortals and mortals alike put personal ideologies into the game and there's no strict "you can do that" or "you can't do that" guideline.

Look at PK: if I kill a player, I would be punished for looting their corpse, as it's "unsportsmanlike."

Look at Stealing: To steal from another player is highly frowned upon, even if you are evil, a thief or someone who might actually do something like that.

Just to get this out of the way: I have done both of the above examples in game. Though even in the case of PK, if I kill someone and they didn't have something I wanted, I wouldn't even loot it anyways. But as it is now, I wouldn't even both looting for fear of being reprimanded. As far as stealing goes, if I see something i've never seen in game before, call it curiousity that makes me want to actually see what that item does.

So my questions are this: firstly, why do you play this game? What aspects of it make you come back to play or spend hours a day playing? Would you rather see the mud completely open, allowing players to be unrestricted to do what they want as long as game mechanics allow it? Or would you rather see the game built kind of like an RP-server on a world of warcraft server, IE: if you get something in the game, it's yours forever, you don't have to worry about thieves or murders or whatever may cause an interruption in your day to day in the game?

I just want to get a feel on the players opinion of this game compared to my own, because my own opinion is that a game that is completely unrestricted in ethical issues, is a better game. Because even if I die and lose everything I have spent so hard to get, I can get a group of guys and gals together and go get more of it, while the individuals that killed me will now get to enjoy the spoils of my defeat. I just think that sounds more exciting.
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Arleve
Green Ajah
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Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 2:09 pm

Re: A question for everyone

Post by Arleve »

Exciting yes. Fair, no.

I will tell you what brought me to the game. Shawny said she and some others had created a Mud unlike WoTmud where RP was going to be more important, and because of that, channelers were going to be far more powerful than on WoTmud. And that is quite obviously true.

You and I aren't playing a level field as many others and there needs to be some consideration for that. Your Male Channeler is very powerful by comparison to non-channies and already it's difficult to explain to others why it's reasonable to play against characters that have so much power when they don't.

I play for the RP of Wheel of Time world. That means that channelers have to be very very strong. But the only way that can work is if there's a limit on what you can take from others when you're given so much power. You're on the winning side of a lot of fights but you're also given a lot of gifts that allow that and not everyone wants to have to play a channie to stand a chance of not losing everything whenever some guy feels like coming along and taking it cuz he likes playing guys with magic powers.

Not meant to be insulting or anything so I hope the tone didn't seem that way. :)
Dezadryk
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Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:25 pm

Re: A question for everyone

Post by Dezadryk »

I completely agree, and if it was more unrestricted, there would have to be a rebalance of power with channeling for sure. Especially for PK.
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Arleve
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Re: A question for everyone

Post by Arleve »

So you'd rather see channies downed considerably so there wouldn't be restrictions on looting? I don't think I'd like that mostly because of what it would sacrifice. I think the RP integrity of the game would be lost for the sake of looting. It would make them very wotmudesque..glass cannons. And I can kind of already play that there with a lot more people. Tower channies aren't feared cuz for the most part they can be and are beaten quite regularly.

That said, I do think there should probably be more benefit to PK. I remember talking about it once with Maxim and the idea came up to do some sort of thing where the command loot corpse would randomly take one item from the corpse and then it would be like Arleve's looted corpse lies here and you'd be unable to take anything else. That, or you'd have a choice of taking money from the person which would be allowed. Like loot gold or something.

That of course would have to be coded.
Dezadryk
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:25 pm

Re: A question for everyone

Post by Dezadryk »

I already suggested they remove the times a person can weave at one time (based on one power strength). So basically each channeler would be able to weave one at a time, however I wouldn't be against certain clans (high level sedai, dreadlords etc) from getting a bonus added to where they could do 2 at one time.

But yes, I think channies should be downed in their current form to bring them into balance with everything else in the game. I agree that this place is a good place to RP, and when it happens it's all good and fun. But I shouldn't be able to go solo smobbing like I do, but then again, no one ever needs to actually smob because no one loses gear!

It's a fine line!
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Arleve
Green Ajah
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Re: A question for everyone

Post by Arleve »

Huh. Yeah, I hear ya. But I guess for me..I already play a mud exactly like what you're describing. I play it to this day and have a current Sitter there in the Blue Ajah.

I like the diversity because there's a big difference in my time here versus there. What you describe might draw lots more players. That mud has a lot more, though of course they were around longer. Other muds like Kinslayer I think are a little different in their channeling system. But anyway, if it were changed to what you describe, I'm not sure I'd play two that were so similar. As I mentioned, the difference you want removed is what drew me here in the first place. LOL I might have to hunt you down if it were changed to that. As Lenara once described Mirrors.. "It's my oasis."

Everything here isn't equal for the sake of having PK where people can take each other's stuff. It's designed around the world we read about that RJ created and it's so much closer than anywhere else I tried. I am fine with the restrictions if it preserves that.
Dezadryk
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Re: A question for everyone

Post by Dezadryk »

I definitely see where you're coming from. I really do like RPing, but when there's no RP I guess I just get bored. Maybe I have too much time on my hands!
sylvae
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Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:25 pm

Re: A question for everyone

Post by sylvae »

I have to agree with Arleve entirely here. I don't actually like the idea of downing anything - it looks like it was made that way to reflect bookish One Power handling.

Like Arleve, If I wanted to PK for the sport of it, I would go play WoTmud or Kinslayer as well. In Mirrors-land, Sylvae would in no way shape or form even dream of challenging a channeler to a fight.
That is why I play.With player interactions... It is sooo much more realistic and I can really feel like I am in the world. I -like- that I can't go fight channelers for blade masters. I like that if I am a blade master, some schmuck with a sharp piece of metal can't challenge me. I like having a reward for the work I put in. Its more realistic than similar games. It opens the opportunity to use your mind and imagination.
With environment interactions... I love being able to play alone if I want! You can't really do that on wotmud or kinslayer.

Yes, this place does get boring after a while. I've been experiencing a bit of burn-out, myself since prices of certain items were (rightfully) adjusted. Every game gets boring if you play it enough!

--Why not request supplementary rather than deductive? --

Here are a few off the top of my head...
~Add a purely informative [PK] flag to let others know you're spoiling for a fight- coded or just typed in your title.
~Lacking the above point - ask for a fight!
~Ask for more frequent Arena Battles, perhaps creatively employ different areas ad-hoc, e.g. The Ways, Aridhol, Telarhanrhiod or however you spell that bloody word.
~Play an unbonused character who is just as evil! ;) (I know.. that comes off snarky, but I say it playfully and think of the logic this way; Play one of the MOST powerful set of beings in the Wheel of Time Universe that is surprisingly accurate in this game... ask for it to be nerfed. :p) If your PKing is in any way combined with Roleplay, why not? You could play a highwayman!
~Enjoy your OP-ness! Rather than killing your pk opponent, cuff him and drag him back to the Fortress for some dramatic, thrilling roleplay. Give him the chance to escape, try making him swear to the D.O. Hell... Bond Arleve! haha

To solve the boredom beyond PvP desires...
~Come up with some ideas on quests you can do or ways to gain cps that are reasonable. Write up a detailed description and see if imms will consider it! I haven't met an imm here who isn't accommodating.

Really.. "balance" is so subjective and depends on the goals of whoever utters the B-word. What else could be destroyed? If you're able to go toe-to-toe with a non-channeler or even another Aes Sedai.. would you be okay with one of us binding you, bringing you to the Tower, and submitting you to the mercy of the Reds? That would literally ruin your character.

To "balance" this game in a way that would make PvP in any way viable.. well. I'd venture to say a complete remake from the ground up would have to be done. Downing forms or channeling will only ruin something fun. The geography is NOT pk-friendly - way too big, too open, too many doors in cities, no 'neutral' territory available. Gear is wild and follows no standards (which I know Keruk is attempting to address) and needs to be statted and priced -and- distributed properly which means every smob in the game will need to be revisited in some form (which, I anticipate will be or is planned to be). Current characters will have to be re-done if they own old-statted items...What about special personal items? Unclanned people have no where to store their things if they do happen to win and loot, and furthermore some people have 'safe' rooms and some don't..etc etc. What about blade forms?

Point being.. tweaking a few things is not going to make the game more fun for everyone, its just going to make everything bland and deflated. The relative harmony we have here will degrade into frustration and bitterness.

Solo-smobbing.. I LOOOOVE being able to do this. Really, What is wrong with being able to solo smobs? Even IF the reward is pretty worthless. There aren't enough players to just grab a group and go smobbing at any given time - and some folks (like me) are averse to being around others when we slip into our characters and become them. If anything, I think there should be MORE smobs that can be done solo - ones that would be impossible straight up but have purposeful flaws that allow people to use their heads to exploit weaknesses and use tricks. :D

On the topic of thievery and stealing... If it were up to me, I would make every personal room in the game locked up tight when the player is offline. I have stolen people's things before as a less mature player. In fact, I robbed the hell out of you, Dezadryk! I feel -bad- about that. Its not even fair most of the time as the owners of those belongings aren't around to protect them or challenge the thief. What fun is that? I have many ideas to making thieving and banditry more fun - with both NPCs and PCs in mind but.. as I have already probably gone way off topic..


And am starting to ramble so I'll end this post now. :p
Ganelon
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Re: A question for everyone

Post by Ganelon »

Been watching this thread since first post.

Most of it - from all the posters involved - is fairly accurate.

I'm not going to refute or endorse any statement made on this thread so far. For reasons that have already been stated - everyone gets their kicks from different things.

We've had a long discussion about it tonight in room 1. Player killing, SMOB's, and taking things from Player Rooms.

Dezadryk, I can appreciate you want something with no limits. For you, limits force a limit on your RP and game play.

To both you and Arleve, I can understand your concerns regards channeling and it's effects on PK. One thing we will be doing is having channeling damage different in PK to what is it against mobs. We're also currently running a lot of PK tests (thank you again for your help in this Arleve) - anyone wanting to assist, just let us know.

I agree with a comment (Sylvae I think) that little tweaks with no overall cohesion can be dangerous to the game as a whole. It's an issue that's dogged the MUD since its beginnings.

I will add also that PK is here to stay - as was always intended. Most of us have no intentions of going to another MUD just to PK there. A lot of us came here as refugees looking for what (we felt) was a better game over all. That said, a lot of things are true in the statements regarding zones and EQ and other stuff that has a bearing on the subject.

Solo SMOB's - this is something I've always wanted to see more of. Unfortunately, it's not a high priority. The active imms are just WAY too overloaded with other stuff to see to it. There's new clans going in, a reworking of the newbie zone, and other things. The 'worth' of SMOB eq however will be getting a kind of adjustment soon. I don't mean in coin value.

Thieving from Player houses - I pretty much agree with what Sylvae said myself - this however isn't something agreed to by all imms. Honestly, I'm not sure how this should be handled. The issues have already been mentioned in the post above, so I won't go over it again here. However, I am very interested in the ideas mentioned for banditry, etc.

Well crap - I've both endorsed and refuted statements already. So much for my own posting rules.

From an immortal viewpoint (mine only), I'm not really sure what else to add to this post. To be certain, I'd like to hear a lot more opinions from others.
"How the fades must gnash their teeth......."

Demandred of the Forsaken.
Moriia
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:28 pm
Location: Canada

Re: A question for everyone

Post by Moriia »

My answers are in Bold.


Dezadryk wrote:Alright, so I want to get everyone's opinion on this, both mortal and immortal.

So my questions are this: firstly, why do you play this game? I like that not everyone is cookie cutter. Meaning, you don’t got to a mob and <prac ride> and get lvl x ride to bash on horse back. That you have to work to get to that level. That you don’t go and <prac fireball> that you need to actually weave it to raise it. Sure it takes work, but the work you put into only makes it that much rewarding once you achieve the skill set you want for your character. What aspects of it make you come back to play or spend hours a day playing? Heh, if we didn’t spend hours a day playing no one would get anywhere ;) skill wise. Damn, if I didn’t have the opportunity to play at work Moriia wouldn’t be nearly as ‘strong’ as she is. I can’t always come home and spam <weave ‘insert weave name here’ trolloc> I see it as a double sided coin, weaving takes a long time to raise, although I’ve heard not as much as Blademaster does, or whatever it is called, sometimes I wish upping skills here didn’t take so long, but then I think it -is- part of the game. Now with more RP options available, (even tough I still don’t really know how I feel about Wetlanders being in my Hold), I’m more inclined to log on, besides being the only Aiel on Aiel Side chillin' with my straw creature ;) Would you rather see the mud completely open, allowing players to be unrestricted to do what they want as long as game mechanics allow it?This is pretty much how it is already. If you have an RP idea or a direction you want to take your character Imm’s here –will- work with you. And that’s amazing, they will take the time, mind you having a small playerbase also helps. I play three (on a good day) other muds and Imms/Staff don’t nearly dedicate as much time as they do here on the playerbase. Or would you rather see the game built kind of like an RP-server on a world of warcraft server, IE: if you get something in the game, it's yours forever, you don't have to worry about thieves or murders or whatever may cause an interruption in your day to day in the game?I hate PK, always have. But if I RP a thief, and part of my RP –is- to steal you better believe I will. If not, what’s the point of RP-ing that type of character? We could have PK, RP, ‘Please don’t steal’ flags coming out of the waazoo but then again, what would be the point? I can’t put a sign on my RL front door saying ‘please don’t break in', if someone wants to, they will. Fantasy game, escape game or not, once people come here they have to understand that you have to reap the RP/PK whatever consequences of life here, -outside- of whatever set of rules make up the –justice- system here, and if broken, like if I get caught stealing in RL, you have to face whatever unfolds afterward.
Wise One Moriia of the Iron Mountains Taardad Aiel
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